Strut vom Eichenluft BH - Page 4

Ron,
You are correct the dog does go back into prey when the sleeve is introduced.  This is actually fairly normal as the dog goes back to it's prior training and where it has gotten success from in the past.  If the dog is loaded in prey it is going to prefer the sleeve and key on the sleeve when it is presented, at least initially.  I think the dog would have bit the decoy with out the sleeve, but does change when the sleeve is available.  Perfectly normal.  It is one thing we try to avoid with the Police Dogs, that is why we work to be able to slam the sleeve on the table and have the dog ignore it and go for the man.  We start by bringing sleeves out and placing them near the table then on the table.  Like everything else it is a progression and takes time and several sessions for some dogs.  We have one dog that did it the first time, a very serious dog that hasn't had a lot of sleeve experience and no equipment fixation.   I don't think I would push this dog to that point as it is unnecessary and may be counter productive for this dog.  I think most any dog with a foundation in Schutzhund will initially revert back to prey when the decoy puts the sleeve on.  In that scenario and definitely high prey drive dogs. 

Keep in mind if the dog is stressed due to the defense work the sleeve is like a release.  I don't see this dog being really stressed just a high prey drive dog.  IMO, the reaction to the sleeve is normal and to be expected in this case.  I think this dog did a really good job of handling the pressure and is balanced enough to switch back to prey when the sleeve is introduced. 

JMO,

Jim

Judron55 is the only one here asking the right question. This dog is working in prey and that is the only time he showes he is sure of himself.When there is no sleeve and decoy tries to stress  the dog showes he is stressed the ears are down.If you truly want to see the dog's defence there should not be a sleeve in the picture.This is just prey work.Also this dog would work the same way on the ground as well.Have a nice one.

I was always wondering

I never used table for my dogs actually I never experienced table work untill I came to the USA, in EU, we did more muzzle work. I mainly don't use table because my dogs are not Sleeve happy animals and I never really neded it. I do a lot of scenarios where they have to climb things (unstable surfaces, well havin fun) to get to the helper so I dont thing it would really make any difference.  I had a dog that figured out the crotch thing.. bad, bad.. only apron would have to be used in a trial on that dog. Never got his ONE..(Sad face)
Anyway I experienced dogs that did table work but for some reason could not transfer it in their heads to the ground, actually had problems on the actual table.. Too preyed out was the term that somebody used.. just too locked in prey, never any defence introduction. Anyway is this the reason some dogs never channel to fight? too much prey, prey running helper happy happy... ..You know what I mean.
Thanks for the aswers

Pack

This is a wrong way to train a dog period.An obvious thing this dog is showing is stress when decoy gets in the dogs face the ears go down totally.that is a dog that is not sure of himself and he is being pushed too much too fast.Also the only reason the dog trying to show some defence is because he is stuck on a table and can not go anywhere else and that is whole point to put a young dog in this position and he is not ready for it makes it a shit training.Have a nice one.

Held,
I just watched the video for the third time.  The dog is most definitely in defense and would have bitten the decoy for real given the opportunity.  The dogs ears are back because all dogs ears go back before they bite.  I'm sure you have seen a serious dog doing a hold and bark with their ears pinned down, they are not stressed just ready to bite.  When the dog chases the decoy away the ears go back up as distance is gained by the decoy running away and off camera. 

I respectfully disagree, this dog is working in defense when the sleeve is not present and only switches before it is given a bite on the sleeve.  That is what I see.  At no time do I see this dog being unsure of itself.  The dog is most definitely pushed into defense.  I would love to hear the opinions of some others who have done this type of work. 

Giving the dog a bite rewards the dog and serves to release the pressure.  That is the purpose of the sleeve in this situation.  It would be detrimental, IMHO, to work this dog in complete defense with out rewarding it with a bite. 

JMO FWIW,

Jim

Held,
Are we watching the same video?  Please go back and watch the video again.  This dog is not stressed and handles the training very well. 

There are many ways to train dogs and many opinions on how it should be done.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with this training.  And ths dog is really super.

Jim

Held, I am going to disagree..that female is showing as much stress as any other young dog put towards defence. The female is showing some questionmarks in her hed but I am going to be rude..maybe? She is fine, she won.. if you are not a moron (not ment to you personaly) and dont push the dog way too far. it is just any other stress training. The female is gonna get off that table stronger and more convinced that she is the HOT SHIT on the field...

I dont put my dogs on the table, they are very civil as it is.No need to do that!

My two cents. I put my dogs through sooo much stress training that you would call me probably nuts.. but when he comes up on that field to work you can throw a cow at him that rattles like hundreds of rock filled cans and he still makes his way to you..
There is traiing and there is training, some people are not willing to see what their dogs are maid out of... some people are willing to find out...
(within a reason of course)

Pack

There is a proper way to bring the defence out, but this is not it and the dog is stressed. Last thing you want to do is be in the face of the dog that is not ready for that chellenge now that is detrimental.Really, you gonna compare dogs ears down when he is running to this.Have a nice one.

GSDPACK,
Table training is not for every dog.  Dogs with super high prey drive and little or no defense drive would be very stressed on a table pushed into defense.  Just as they would being back tied to a post, there is no difference for those dogs.  For those dogs, who may be great sport dogs the table would be a bad idea.  It really boils down to finding the right training approach for the individual dog and tailoring the training for that dog.  In this case the table worked great.  I twas done properly and the dog did very well.

Jim

Held,
All dogs put their ears down before they bite.  Surely, you must know this.  Please don't tell me dogs only put their ears down when running or stressed?  Before a dog bites the ears go down every time.  The ears are only one indicator, the dogs tail is wagging does that mean it is happy?  You must read all of the signs the dog gives you to judge it's temperament.  Dogs should be stressed in bitework, after all it's a fight isn't it?  Do you do bite work with your dogs?  Do your dogs ever get stressed?  If the answer is no, then you are just having a friendly game of tug of war with a sleeve.

Jim