Unusual use of an e-collar? - Page 4

Maybe the ecollar is around the waist because they are working on the out from a distance.   There is a theory that a stim from a collar around the neck might make certain dogs lock down.   Or maybe they know the dog and a light stim around the waist will surprise the dog enough to out the sleeve and they can give a quick reward rebite.  

Good posts Margaret and Ulf - sound sensible comments from people that know dogs.

Just a couple of points I would add

(i) Why put the collar round your wrist - for a more reliable taster handlers should surely put it around their neck - or is that too dangerous for them but not their dogs.

(ii) Stim is a sanitised way of saying passing electric through - that way I assume it appears more acceptable.

(iii) Any collar can be misused I agree but at least a flat collar can limit that - unless the user is a complete moron intent on abuse - which is of course a criminal offence.

(iv) There are far far better ways of training - without resorting to such devices. And to my mind you get a much better end product.

(v) Does doing well in sport mean that much we have to resort to these devices - If so is it more about us than us and the dog enjoying the training? It is only sport after all.- its not life or death.

(vi) I have tried to understand the opposite point of view - looked into it and research it - but I cannot ever see the justification for using them- or pinch collars - unless it is to save the dog having a one way trip to the vets - however I do think this is one in a thousand - mwhere EVERY other method has been tried and exhausted

Happy motivated training

PS - Just read post from GSD sport - if you want an out - train it. If the dog won't out its down to the trainer. The dogs are a product of our training - if they have too much drive ( disobedience I call it) and dont come out - its down to the trainer - not the dog. Either it hasn't been trained properly, the dog doesn't understand or it lacks the motivation to do so.All of which lie squarely with the trainer. Dont punish the dog for the trainers failings

 

Ramgsd, apparently I wasn't clear. I was being sarcastic about "practical applications", ie, my LIMITED experience is with white trash laughing at a petrified dog w/an e-collar on a dog's waist and neck. I hope I never become experienced in that! I've seen e-collars used humanely more often than not.

I have multiple sets of Dogtra multi-dog e-collars, personally. Never felt the need to go to those lengths for some fun. I use them for serious, life or death behavior issues, or while on horseback as a safety-net, or I use the page feature (simply makes the receiver vibrate) when my dogs are far away and I want to recall them without screaming. Nothing wrong with e-collars themselves! 

 

northwoods, I know which picture you're referring to, and let's be blunt--the E-collar isn't around the dog's abdomen, it's around his loin, and thus his groin.  In other words, the 'stim' or whatever term proponants would prefer to couch the electrical impulse in, will be delivered to the dog's sheath.  I invite the individuals who will argue in favor of this use of an E collar to please apply the device to their own genitals, and then allow someone else to operate the transmitter and report back to us on their experiences. 

HiredDog, so far, I've seen no evidence that the manufacturers of the COLLARS market a product for such applications of the receiver. "After-market" adaptors for misuse of the device assuredly are out there, as there's nothing like human ingenuity, especially when it comes to making something easier on itself.

Regardless if you're for or against, this is funny!


 

Funny video, but try getting tased for 5 seconds.  I'll take an E collar any day. 
 

Maybe the ecollar is around the waist because they are working on the out from a distance. There is a theory that a stim from a collar around the neck might make certain dogs lock down

An E collar used on the front of the neck will cause the jaw muscles to contract and the dog will not out, and can not out, even under heavy stimulus.  This is not theory, but fact.  The stim from under the jaw, i.e. collar worn in the front of the neck causes the jaw muscles to contract and not open.  This is where you see unskilled trainers or trainers not understanding how to properly use an e collar, using multiple collars on the dog to try to get an out. Meanwhile, they have been unintentionally training the dog to grip harder when told to out.  There is a much easier, much more humane way to use the E collar to proof an out.  First, the dog must be motivationally taught to out, the e collar properly introduced and the "out" is very simple.  I recently took a Belgian Malinois Police K-9 that had serious outing issues at a Police K-9 seminar and had the dog reliably outing in minutes, with no stim and ultra low level stim.  The original handler used two collars on the dogs neck and went to the highest level and did not get results, actually got horrible results.  The new handler was faced with a screwed up dog and needed to fix it.  In literally 5 minutes, with the correct use of one collar on the lowest setting, the correct placement and a different approach I had the dog was outing reliably.  40 handlers were there to watch and the new handler was thrilled. 

 

" First, the dog must be motivationally taught to out..."

Can you elaborate more on this?  I've always started imprinting my puppies to the out by using the command while training with two balls and saying it when I knew that they were getting ready to spit the ball out anyway which has worked well with my SL dogs.  Not so much with this one.  We've moved to working the dog on a back-tie with someone else reinforcing the out to minimize conflict with me but that isn't so much motivational as it is redirecting from where the correction originates.  It's effective but I'd still be interested in reading your thoughts on reinforcing the behavior using a more motivational technique.

Thanks in advance for your input.

I am interested in hearing more about training the out too. Slamdunc, would you be willing to elaborate on how you fixed the problem dog mentioned above in such a short period of time using no/low stim?