Breeder won't lift Limited registration - Page 5

hello Bob, there is always meaning lost in cyber space, but suffice it to say that in no way was "sucker" aimed at those with the years and experience to know what they are doing.

I have been listed as a contact person by the GSDCA for a club in my area for close to 25 years. I have fielded literally hundreds of calls in that time from people wishing to purchase a GSD, learn more about the GSD or complain about a deal gone sour. 99.9% of these calls are from novice folks. From the inception of limited registration, I have recommended it as an option for those looking for a pet to get a well bred animal (at a reduced price) that they do not intend to breed. Often though, it turns out that what they really want is the same pedigree as the star puppy at 1/2 price (or reduced) and intend to breed all along.

As far as ltd. registration freaking me out, It does not. I am just saying to the novice, accept if you want, reject it if you don't want. There are no pups being bred that cannot be matched several times over if one does not like the terms.

I admit I sometimes lack eloquence, but I try to make up for it by being blunt and having a piss poor personality. I do regret if I offended you, but I will stand by my statements.

Rik

 Don't you think there are plenty of people who are capable of giving a dog a wonderful home and a very good life, but have no business breeding?  I think limited registration is a great way to keep these people from being tempted when the neighbor down the street says, "Hey, you know, I've got an AKC-registered female, she'd probably make pretty puppies with your male.  I could give you a few hundred dollars. . . "  

 Um, those people will do that anyway, registered or not. 

My former neighbor offered me a case of PBR if I'd breed my male to his GSD-Chow mix.

 Maybe.  There's not nearly as much money to be made without "papers."  

I realize I have a different perspective, being a rescue foster first and a puppy buyer second, but I think that limited registration has a valuable place in the modern market.  

A few days ago somebody posted a link to a "breeder" that was selling pups whose mom was their aunt and also their grandmother.  The same dogs had the racist "N" word in the pedigree.  The sad part is that only a couple of generations back there were some very nice dogs from Germelhaus.  Mellodee Middleton at Germelhaus would probably be sick to know that dogs she had produced were being used in such a breeding program, and that her kennel names were on their pedigrees.  With limited registration, at least she could keep her kennel name off those dogs, and they might not have been bred in the first place since there's less money to be made from them.  

Ok. I'm going to play devil's advocate here, since I'm confident plenty of breeders here utilize limited registration and are afraid to post for fear of being burned at the stake. However, I'm confident that a few of you know me well enough to know I'm pretty a reasonable, forthright person.

First, I would not hesitate to buy a puppy with limited registration, provided I have a signed contract from a breeder I trust (trust is, after all, a two way street) stating the terms to lift it. Why do I care if the breeder wants to ensure the pup is breedworthy? I have no interest in breeding a dog who can't pass health ratings or earn a title, anyway.

Second, while  I completely respect that the breeder should trust the buyer, here's the rub: people lie. People can appear charming, people can seem honest and reasonable, people can even change their minds and intentions after their neighbor, their second cousin, and their ninth grade teacher convince them that they simply MUST have puppies.

I am, at heart, a soft person (yes, really) and I tend to believe the best in people, and it has come back to bite me in the ass. A dog I bred was used for breeding. One of his sisters will be a PAM recipient this year. Another is KKL1. This dog, however, has a dental fault, which his owner KNOWS, and there is no record of said dog in the SV or OFA database for hips or elbows. I was deeply disappointed. I explained the breeding system to this buyer when the puppy was purchased. They seemed truly genuine and understanding, and I entrusted them with full registration. Guess what? I was told they ended up giving those puppies way for free because they could not get rid of them. Never again.

I am not against buyers breeding my dogs. I'm not one of those psychotic, control freak breeders that wants to keep my lines "exclusive." That's crap. If your goal as a breeder is not to produce dogs that will carry the breed forward in a positive way for generations to come, why the hell are you breeding? I want any breed quality dogs I produce to be used, why wouldn't I? Isn't that the point, to contribute to the gene pool in a positive way?

I have a list of very simple requirements and I lift it. You have my word, both signed in contract and when I look you in the eye. You have my promise that I will assist you each and every step of the way. I am not springing any surprises on anyone or twisting anyone's arm when they buy a puppy from me. Just as a breeder is expected to trust their buyer, I expect my buyer to trust me to honor my contract and lift the LR promptly when conditions are met. The day I don't honor my contract is the day a buyer can smear my name all over the place without a whimper of protest from me.

I understand it seems hypocritical to some of you, but I have yet to find a suitable alternative. Feel free to give me ideas. And yes, some people will breed without papers anyway, but Joe Public seem to think "papers" are a pretty big deal. I guarantee it cuts the number down, at least in my neck of the woods.

If limited registration discourages even one or two halfhearted attempts at backyard breeding, with so many unwanted GSDs out there, it's worth it to me. It's even worth being flamed on the internet. ;)

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KC, you are forcing me into uncharted territory. you are one of the folks I have come to respect very much here.but despite that, I will not alter my view of ltd. registration for the novice buyer.

I have been involved with the GSD in the U.S. for several decades, and the original intent of ltd. registration was for the breeder to place pups that they deemed not breed worthy in pet homes, who could pursue any goal they had the energy and strength to pursue short of breeding.

At the time I considered this to be an excellent goal. I do not consider the present direction of breeders using ltd. registration to control those too novice to know better as good for the buyer/novice.

Looking forward to this discussion. Especially from those of you so concerned with the GSD that you are doing 3, 4, 5 breeding's a year for the betterment of the breed at $2000 a pop.

And Bob, I ain't talking to you and I think you know that. So if you want to discuss my views, then lets do it on a case by case basis. 

Rik 

Thats ok Rik i,m sure your wwaayy above little ole me any how!!! with your decades of experience!!!..

For me it has nothing to do with experience.  I just won't buy a dog on limited.  Bottom line is, it's my dog, and I will do what I want with it when I want.  I will not pay more for the same dog with a different paper.  I will not have my training, competition, and breeding controlled by someone else.  It's not that they're wrong and I'm right, but I cannot make any guarantees that if I buy a dog on limited, I won't change my mind about wanting to show it.  Currently I own three GSDs with full registration and two are intact males.  The adults all have titles in several different venues of training, have had hips and elbows checked, have shown in conformation, and the puppy is well on his way.  I've never breed a dog, solicited a stud dog, used one of my dogs as a stud, or purchased a female dog with breeding in mind.  If breeders only sell on limited that is within their right, but if it is a blanket rule then I am going elsewhere.  There are enough good dogs and breeders to choose from, everyone can get what they want or feel they deserve.  So far, I've never been turned down by a breeder I've contacted.  I don't know if all of them always sell full registration (actually I know that one of them typically does not) but so far it hasn't been a problem for me.