Scissors Bite Question for Experienced Breeders - Page 3

As someone already pointed out, a dog with certain missing teeth, or a faulty bite CAN NOT be shown and get a necessary conformation rating, nor can the dog get a breed survey. According to the SV system, a GSD is not supposed to be bred before all these conditions are met. I follow the SV system. Many others only say they do, breed untitled and un breed surveyed dogs. But I do not. Therefore, if one follows SV regulations, as I do, this particular dog would not ever be bred, even if I titled him, which is something all together different if this overshot jaw does not correct itself. I know that growth goes on a long time. I also know that commonly the lower jaw is slower than the upper jaw to grow, but the degree here is the issue. The dog is so nice in every other respect that I will keep him to see what happens. I suspect that dogs with slightly narrower muzzles and longer muzzles than the blockier type heads/jaws may sometimes show this kind of growth pattern. None the less, I was interested to hear other peoples' experiences who have bred lots of litters over the years. Having a club member who just had to put her 7-8 month old pup to sleep for severe hip dysplasia (bought it from another breeder who is not a stellar representative of ethical breeders), and having my second litter on the way (Kevin Murrtal and Donna von der Biberfalle), believe me, I am well aware of the kind of homes I want for my pups. I do not simply sell because of the money. I do not care how much someone offers me, if I do not think the home is a suitable home, the pup will not be sold. PERIOD. That is why I never will make a living selling litters. I am also well aware of the heartbreak it can cause a new owner, as well as the expense, when a pup is not healthy. The problem arises when sometimes there is not clear evidence as to how a given pup will develop. If there is any early indication or question about how a pup I own will develop, I will keep it until I know the answer to the question. Then and only then would I ever consider selling the dog and only then with full disclosure of any supposed fault. Of course, there are many other factors to consider when placing the dog as a pet. Thank you everyone for your comments and opinions.

Hallo hodie, You state you position superbly well, but right from start I didn't think much different from what you stated. Other people come in though, and you lose track of main point. i just like to close topic with following. You say gap is quarter to a third of inch. Now, from beginning I meant to ask you about that: you see, taking into account nature of the thing, that's a pretty wide range. When it started to appear with pup I mentioned, I was there almost every second day trying to figure out exactly how much upper canines were leading lower ones and change therein. It was certainly closer to the third of inch. At four or five months the upper canines closed completely over and in front of lower jaw. I remember long discussion with vet - ie dominant versus recessive genes - from memory his conclusion was that because you're dealing with whole groups of genes (all those determine shape of jaws, in effect), eventual outcome is practically impossible to predict. And, I speculate that genes in question would interact with each other differently for each animal. I'm saying this because some posts above suggest that my first opinion above is incorrect - and that everything is likely to turn out hokey-dokey! At the time, I also had long telephone conversations with number of Breeders far more experienced than me, trying to get to the bottom of it - much as you now on Board. General impression I gained was that if there wasn't a drastic turn-around six to eight months or so-and I'm talking about pup affected to degree I mentioned - there really wasn't much hope - and so it turned out. The subsequent minor improvement wasn't really enough to write home about, as they say. If nothing else, I hope this will help to round off the picture. Cheers.

Hi All My Rule of thumb for checking bite is to check at 7weeks of age. If it's bite is correct at 7wks it will be the same at 7mths. This was passed onto me from the breeder of my foundation bitch and along with many more of her very wise words, it has always proved to be right for me and having discussed this over the years with other very knowledgable and respected breeders, they too have confirmed same. Perhaps we were all lucky and the saying worked only because we do not generally produce overshot mouths anyway, then again perhaps we do not produce them because we never breed from animals that have them? Who knows!!?? I would agree with other postings on here which suggest the pup now 8mths will remain overshot, be it slightly or otherwise. Best Regards Sue B

Thanks Sue: I worried in that I might have given hodie a 'bum steer'!

I have a 6 mo wworking pup with an overbite similart to what you are describing. He has no trouble eating, or chewing. He has a fine temperment, and is a pet. Is the overbite likely to cause pain or damage to him. I have been told surgery is available, but if the condition will not bother him and he may still improve with age it seems a waste of money. Thanks for the advice.

Excellent reply Hodie, you are an example of the ethical breeder...:O What is the german shepherd worth if it cannot do what it was bred for..people think that breeding dogs who don't work will improve the breed, think again..It perpetuates itself until all you have is a Garfield on the couch! Any working qualification is better than none, even a BH begleithund can stimulate the laziest of dogs sorry about the overbite...:(

Patrishap - I am having problems with my posts, I have posted to you on the other thread judging dogs.. The mecurial wit post was for you..:O but I forgot to put your name :)

Charisma, Shangra La was decreed for the rhyming lass that thinks global and not local. Your wish is my command. How are you?

Hello Patri-the track is on so to speak thank you, for your PM, I have been very busy rigging up the christmas tree, and shopping, what most girls do best spend lots and lots...Took the "girls" Piper, Amy, Cherry and Dimple down to the VET, mission impossible for the yearleys, just use your imagination, a nice Rotti was visiting to, relative of Spectator's I suspect- LOL, needless to say the "girls" were dying to say HI****The question you need to ask yourself is did the Rotti leave the VET????? Pack mentality is one helluva thing to contend with,obviously not obvious to all.... Toodle doo must go and dish the trifle...