which GSD's are the most titled in history? - Page 10

My logic in a nut shell; No supervision = american sheppard; supervision = the German Shepherd dog we fell in love with. My first exposure to the GSD world was AKC orientated. When I observed German born dogs I witnessed a superior animal to what I had seen from many years of particiapation in the AKC obedience and observation of the AKC conformation ring. Not all German dogs are great. Not all american dogs are terrible. I have evolved away from the unsupervised breeding and yield to the program which took the breed from no where to some where. The journey is not over!

America produced very nice German Shepherds overall without supervision before the proliferation of the " show dog" in the late sixties......for that matter Germany has followed the same path except at a slower pace.

Sorry!

Gustav; Thank you for making my point! the sixtys! the american born dogs were only one or two generation from a regulated breeding program. American breeders made the mistake of thinking they had bought all of the best specimens from a war depleted and economically broken post WAR World ll Germany. We had many of their top dogs here but without supervision, cluster fornication [ literally ] started to wear out the good blood. Many top breeders go past the minimum practices of the korung, but those who do not pay attention to the detailed program laid out by the SV are teaching the next generation how to cut corners and eventually ruin their blood lines. I do not say ruin the breed because enough practitioners obey the directives of a sound breeding program, to insure a base of proper breeding to keep a foundation of true GSD. I love people who say '' i do not lie''. I tell them '' that's a lie''. It is the same failed logic that says '' I know what is best for the breed[ing]. ''  A few do know but most cut corners without peer review [ lie detectors] AND YES, NOT EVERY DOG WHO PASS THE PEER REVIEW IS GREAT, BUT LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN NO ONE SURRENDERS TO A PEER REVIEW.

Gustav; Thank you for making my point! the sixtys! the american born dogs were only one or two generation from a regulated breeding program. American breeders made the mistake of thinking they had bought all of the best specimens from a war depleted and economically broken post WAR World ll Germany. We had many of their top dogs here but without supervision, cluster fornication [ literally ] started to wear out the good blood. Many top breeders go past the minimum practices of the korung, but those who do not pay attention to the detailed program laid out by the SV are teaching the next generation how to cut corners and eventually ruin their blood lines. I do not say ruin the breed because enough practitioners obey the directives of a sound breeding program, to insure a base of proper breeding to keep a foundation of true GSD. I love people who say '' i do not lie''. I tell them '' that's a lie''. It is the same failed logic that says '' I know what is best for the breed[ing]. ''  A few do know but most cut corners without peer review [ lie detectors] AND YES, NOT EVERY DOG WHO PASS THE PEER REVIEW IS GREAT, BUT LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN NO ONE SURRENDERS TO A PEER REVIEW.

Gustav; Thank you for making my point! the sixtys! the american born dogs were only one or two generation from a regulated breeding program. American breeders made the mistake of thinking they had bought all of the best specimens from a war depleted and economically broken post WAR World ll Germany. We had many of their top dogs here but without supervision, cluster fornication [ literally ] started to wear out the good blood. Many top breeders go past the minimum practices of the korung, but those who do not pay attention to the detailed program laid out by the SV are teaching the next generation how to cut corners and eventually ruin their blood lines. I do not say ruin the breed because enough practitioners obey the directives of a sound breeding program, to insure a base of proper breeding to keep a foundation of true GSD. I love people who say '' i do not lie''. I tell them '' that's a lie''. It is the same failed logic that says '' I know what is best for the breed[ing]. ''  A few do know but most cut corners without peer review [ lie detectors] AND YES, NOT EVERY DOG WHO PASS THE PEER REVIEW IS GREAT, BUT LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN NO ONE SURRENDERS TO A PEER REVIEW.

SORRY FOR THE TRIPLE POST!

To get back to the topic, IMO titles do give us a look at how much work breeders are willing to put into "proofing" their dogs in one way or another before using them for breeding. Some will go to any extreme to get those titles while others will stop after a reasonable attempt. Many don't even train or handle their own dogs, so they have a disadvantage of not having a first hand look at their dogs weak and strong points and don't know if the title was earned or gifted. Personally, if my dog can't get a CD in 5 shows or less, the dog would be retired. I would be more forgiving for a CDX or a UD. I don't know what would be a reasonable number of times to trial a dog for an IPO1. At a recent trial, one dog failed to pass his breed survey because he failed the bite work.

I credit anyone who does anything with their dogs. Protection, OB, dock diving, fly ball, nose work, tracking, anything. At least their dogs aren't sitting in a kennel going stir crazy looking for an outlet for their energy.





 

gsdstudent, the majority of the breed that follows the german way of breeding has changed both in structure and workingability since the 60s, so obviously it hasn´t helped the breed much to preserve any of that. A breeder that is breeding for work and health has no intresst to breed dogs who place high in shows, they are satisfied with a functional body and the workingability they strive for is not going to be preserved by the simple demands on a german breed survey. I would be surprised if skipping conformationratings would mean the GSD suddenly would be unrecognisable in a few generations, the structure of some of the working GSDs is the same today that it was 80 years ago, I guess this means a functional body is not going to change much if functio is the priority.

johann; Somethings have changed- positive some negative.The training of dogs has changed so that the perseption in  charactor has changed. It was only a few years before I got started that an ''out'' during bite work had to be demonstrated. Big change in training and maybe the dogs. The high lines from Germany are  different, the american sheppard is what I cringe over. Every back yard breed'em young and often, breeder wants what some of the people here think they want.;.... no supervision.