what do u think about cow hocks - Page 4

Totally agree PINERIDGE!

Cowhocks is a fault, how severe....I dunno....I do know that over the years many of the pure herding lines seemed to have this fault. Of course these dogs were not bred for conformation, and as the years have gone by real herding lines have dwindled, but I find this intriguing. I'm talking about lines that go back to haus Kind, haus Himpel, the older HGH lines. Again, not taking sides either way, but I'm always interested in aspects of the breed doing what it was made to do

 Pineridge  Some of us who happen to like some American lines consider it a FAULT--I am one of those some people. It is a fault, it is a serious fault to me, I don't want it in my lines and would never breed to any that carry it.
Also while on the subject of movement, you can stack a dog where you can't see it but movement tells all. One more thing, I have a pic of a dog from the late 20's-early 30's from Germany in a beautiful flying trot--so please stop blaming it all on the American show ring. Not all judges put up faulty dogs......................

wow didnt know this was such a sensitive topic. yall are over talking my knowledge, can someone who understand everythin that is going on summarize this for me, im still confussed, i think some r sayin, slight could be ok,(arguably), must say its not good, some say are expectations of these animals dont match wild animals, some say a slight could help.............what is it really.......bad breeding, stay away from it, slight helps and is better as long as the knees are starting fires? ....................

Just to be clear, I was not advocating cow hocks on the gsd. just making an observation that it is man made structure with legs perfectly parallel,front and back. Personally, I don't like to see cow hocks on anything but a cow :)

Yes, VONISSK - I have had my hand slapped - and it's okay. I generalize - a lot- i know there are exceptions.  I just happen to know more breeders who don't care, than those who do.  There are some American lines - i can and do find very attractive - good movers, and intelligent too !!  it can be done, there are people who work really hard at it - and then there are "the others".   They are why I am reluctant to show my German dog - even at "all breed" shows.....  They think he is wrong - and they have the ony correct ones -  they are "kennel blind"to be sure.  I havefrineds who have super east german/czech dogs who "float"  and could walk on eggs --  they are "correct" in all aspects -- and they don't have cow hocks.  No dog is perfect - to be sure --  but  there are too many people around here (where i live) NOT this forum- who are happy to overlook everything for the sake of "movement" -- and unless/until judges penalize them they will continue to produce poor quality (while they charge more and more for it) ...........  seemingly little things like "cow hocks" are just another spark on dry tinder to me.

so - in conclusion - and totally off topic -- I do not "hate" American Bred dogs.  I was given one as a gift - and she was wonderful and lived to be 14 -- she was cast off  by the breeder because she had less than perfect elbows - -but she never limped a day in her life -- she was healthy and smart - and a wonderful companion..  I know I can come across as being only pro-german import - but  I can forgive a dog his pedigree -- if he's a "nice person" --  you know what i mean...   

 
http://www.kokopelli-shepherds.com/Kokopelli-Shepherds/ISS.html#45 

 

Good illustrations SM, I would agree with almost completely.

Note how the "ideal" stance has very slight turn out of the feet, without affecting the placement of the hocks.

The bit that needs correcting is the caption "straight hock" The hock is the joint.  It should read - straight rear pastern, or metatarsus.  And "sickle" refers to the angle at the hock joint, not any perceived curve in the metetarsus.

Pod, thank you;  that is how I too understand it.


Sickle hocks - perceived curve in metatarsus:
To digress a bit, I have just seen a fascinating film of bone straightening
surgery on a Saint Bernard who had exactly that !  His curved tibias
are being artificially straightened by sawing a wedge out of the bone
then applying a fixator plate to hold the rejoined bone in a straighter
line.  

Fascinating Hm.  Wish I'd seen that.