USCA to develop a plan to improve the breed - Page 4

Maybe someone can explain me why this program 5-10 years should make the breed better? 

I see a lot of time working dog kennels advertising puppies and breedings but never find them on any results list!!!do you think with a new program they change the way they breed.if someone need a organisation to tell him what a good dog and what a bad dog is than they should not breed at all. i know that no board member have any proof of own success full working dog kennel.(USCA,WDA,SV).

If i am wrong let me know!!!

I am a newcomer so my opinion won't be from experience. What I have found to be more of a problem is the division between WL/SL people. I get that each think there dogs are the best & you should believe that. However, you should also be open minded enough to see beauty, workability & breed worthy in either line.
I was all but blatantly made fun because I had a "pretty dog" and it really soured me on doing much with my dog. Is he a biter, yes but only in defense no prey drive. I got an IPO-R1 title on him as well as his BH, AD, CGC. I have done everything right, Hips/Elbows A Normal from Germany.
When I did breed him I bred to a nice Red Sable WL bitch who produced 2 Black & Red & 4 Red sable pups. All are very nice with lots of drive! We got pick pup & our daughter has her. Trinity has her Fathers looks & her Mothers drive. At 16 months she has an SG2, BH, CGC, AKC obedience title & working on her IPO-1. She is really a well put together dog.
Guess my point in all this is I see where both have something to bring to the table.
I am not saying WL/SL should always be bred, what I am saying is I am new & I saw what that WL bitch could bring and went for it. I have no regrets.
I know that not everyone likes the physical appearance of the WL, not everyone wants that flashy Black & Red SL either. Guess that is why there are so many different looks.
It would just be nice if there wasn't such a divide. We all have something to bring to the table, lets try working together.
Okay let the bashing begin.
 

 lober.

Here's where the plan should start in my opinion. Get rid of the divide and the things that create the divide. Take a look at what the SV did to recover and follow their example. The German is and should be a breed for all people. That's how the SV looks at it now. Want to train your dog? A German Shepherd can do that. How about agility? Yes, a German Shepherd can do that too. Frisbee you say,,,,a German Shepherd can catch a frisbee. Need something for the police force? There's a German Shepherd that can do that too.

It's time we as a group were smart enough to see the breed is much more than a working/show argument and develop/implement activities that the cross section of America can do with their dog. Check out your latest issue of the SV magazine, and the ones before it. They figured it out. They are developing the breed and not creating obstacles.

Who cares if all you want to do is trail your dog? Why does that make the dog that herds sheep less of a German Shepherd? German's get it. We don't. It's a big obstacle that creates the situation lober911 and DOZENS of others have faced over the years. I should say faced and went away over the years. Recognize the German Shepherd a multi talented breed and rejoice that the breed is so versatile that everyone and anyone can have one that just right for them and you're on your way to growing the popularity of the European dog in this country. If we were smart enough to figure that out, we could get somewhere.

Excellent post Dog1! 

... Recognize the German Shepherd a multi talented breed and rejoice that the breed is so versatile that everyone and anyone can have one that just right for them and you're on your way to growing the popularity of the European dog in this country...

The "elitism" has to go.  

The problem lies there in! Everyone wanting one doesn't really bode well for the breed! As what has happened is that most people want a German Shepherd with a Lab mentality. The Breed must stay what it was designed for.


  
 

You've been saying that forever, and you know what, I think it is plain old wrong because nothing has changed since I first got here. The people who aren't suited to be GSD owners will just find themselves quicker, is what I think could really happen.

elitism huh?  I never understood why one would want a dog, but then not want all the "stuff" that makes up that breed of dog?  and it's fine if you don't want to do certain things with them.  My dogs hang out far more often than we do anything else.  You can hike, watch tv, do sports, bite sports, non biting sports, therapy, service dog, leader dog, chase the rabbits out of the garden dog, whatever.  I don't care what you do with your dog other than feed it, interact with it, and love it.

When you take dogs that are proven to be mentally and physically strong, you end up with dogs that are capable of everything under the sun.  Not every dog in every litter, but more often than not,  you'll find solid dogs capable of most anything in well bred litters.  but when you start making excuses and cutting corners and thinking that because you have a CGC it's good enough, you start taking the indgredients of a great shepherd dog and you end up with shells of dogs with all sorts of issues.  Some decent ones, but more often than not, you don't get what once was.  

I don't know how people can't see that?  Your dog doesn't have to be a man eater to be considered "breed worthy", but it most certainly show itself capable, willing, and able to handle the pressure of bitework along with everything else.  If it can't, don't breed it.  

and I don't depend on anyone to take care of that except for me.  I don't trust a score book, a stranger's word, some description on a website.  I work dogs, I train dogs, I observe dogs and go with people that are doing things the right way.  For some reason, I keep ending up with very good dogs. Dogs capable of pretty much anything I'd like to do with them.

I don't believe you're going to have much luck tearing down barriers.  A lot of the GSD "traits" are propped up and artificially enhanced by opinion and politics where a whole segment has done nothing but pay lip service to a breed standard to create a certain perception about their dogs and drive up prices.  

as a general rule, I don't think the "show" crowd has offered much in the way of quality dogs.  Sorry if that offends some of you.  I have certainly worked enough SL dogs to know there are plenty that can work well.  I've been around some that work and champion SL dogs well.  I've worked some males and females that are really very nice dogs.  The problem is, outside of a few people, most didn't seem to care at all about how they worked, only how they looked.  And if Judge X said dog B was a champion, by God he'd get 1000 breedings.  Never mind Dog C could work circles around him, but his coat just wasn't red enough to get enough attention.  

A gsd should be athletic, they should be quick, they should be very stable, they should have drive to work for hours on end.  They should have energy, they should be mouthy as puppies, they should have all sorts of things that if left unfettered will result in one horrific and destructive dog.  When they have all that and a stable mind, then it's up to the handler to mold it.  My dogs chill just fine in the house, or in the yard, but I had to create that, and give them other outlets.  

Zdog,
+1 verbatim.
Kevin

My current dog is a SL dog (previous dogs have been WL dogs, mostly west German lines) and I have trained with several clubs (8) both as a guest or as a member and I can't say I've ever felt put down, mocked, or excluded because my dog is black and red.  In fact many times he showed up the other dogs.  He doesn't have an overall V IPO score but the individual scores are all better than many WL I've seen at trials and he has about two dozen titles now so people don't need to tell me about GSDs being versatile, lol. But this is not my point....my point is that the whole WL vs. SL thing I think gets blown out of proportion.  So far most people I've met or worked with in IPO know a good dog when they see one, even people who online will be pretty divisive on WL vs. SL but in person will give props to a dog that clearly deserves it.  I think people use the SL vs WL thing as an excuse some times. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular in this thread, just something I was thinking about earlier today.  Maybe I'm just exceptionally lucky in my region but I have enjoyed each experience with the various clubs we've trained with and visited with and I've never once been made to feel ashamed of my dog just because of his color or lines.