The Evolution of the Back of the German Shepherd Dog - Page 6

When the Withers is high, it provides more room for shoulder blade to move and rotate, it also provides more flexibility, hence the open of elbow ( open of shoulder joint) and closer front leg to ground.

P.S: Maybe rotate is not the exact word, maybe slide is the correct word ?

When FCI standard was modified, back with curves, and withers that are not well developed & invisible withers slope were okayed. Also a more sloping back was okayed.

More sloping back can not be achieved without lowering the rear end. lowering the rear end means breeding dogs with more rear angulation and longer lower thigh. But when FCI standard was modified no changes were made to rear angulation, on the contrary there is a clause that says " more rear angulation will decrease rear power and would decrease stamina".

So, they okayed more slope, yet rear angulation remained same. More over line slope can only be done by more rear angulation, what were those who modified the standard thinking?

okaying more over line slope means you agree to more rear angulation, which you yourselves say is not desirable !!!!!!

Ibrahim

Mr. Goldfarb, I'd love to hear your opinion on the above.

Yes Ibrahim!  The words come out, but the actions don't match. I honestly believe that the standard has been modified to become deliberately ambiguous thereby allowing features/elements of construction which we all know are not right to be passed off as 'correct' according to the standard, if it suits them to. JMO.

Also, increasing back slope (topline), and at the same time keeping the inclination degree of croup to back-line same resulted in a more angle of croup to the HORIZONTAL, end result is steep croup.

Looking at all recent VAs, majority of them have steep croups ( 35-45 degrees to Horizontal). Most VAS now do not show visible inclination of croup from back line, start of croup is not clear, it is a continuation of back-line. All that is due to back curves and more sloping, smoother topline. If it is only due to stronger top back muscles, it is good, but if it is a change in back spine ( bones), then I wonder if that is a good thing ?!!!!

I'm not sure anyone could find a photo of any showline that didn't "over reach". Dingo did it, look at the video. Also, that term  generally refers to a dog with more front angulation than rear. It doesn't really apply to a low stationed, well angulated dog like a GSD; a dog that moves with an exagerated suspended gait. Ibrahim has once again explained why; IMO he's correct again. I'd be shocked to see a working line that didn't move this way too,  maybe to a lesser degree, unless it was short in body and very straight on both ends like an Elkhound. In that case, the gait would be called "stilted" and not desired. Too inefficient.

The AKC standard descibes the side gait in more detail than the FCI one; that one doesn't mention it much at all. AKC says it's not a fault in the breed and each rear foot will pass either on the outside or the inside of the opposing foot. Neither will pass on the same side.These photos clearly demonstrate that one front foot will pass the rear foot on the outward side, the other on the inward side. Again look at that famous video of Dingo.

From the AKC standard:

Gait
A German Shepherd Dog is a trotting dog, and its structure has been developed to meet the requirements of its work. General Impression-- The gait is outreaching, elastic, seemingly without effort, smooth and rhythmic, covering the maximum amount of ground with the minimum number of steps. At a walk it covers a great deal of ground, with long stride of both hind legs and forelegs. At a trot the dog covers still more ground with even longer stride, and moves powerfully but easily, with coordination and balance so that the gait appears to be the steady motion of a well-lubricated machine. The feet travel close to the ground on both forward reach and backward push. In order to achieve ideal movement of this kind, there must be good muscular development and ligamentation. The hindquarters deliver, through the back, a powerful forward thrust which slightly lifts the whole animal and drives the body forward. Reaching far under, and passing the imprint left by the front foot, the hind foot takes hold of the ground; then hock, stifle and upper thigh come into play and sweep back, the stroke of the hind leg finishing with the foot still close to the ground in a smooth follow-through. The overreach of the hindquarter usually necessitates one hind foot passing outside and the other hind foot passing inside the track of the forefeet, and such action is not faulty unless the locomotion is crabwise with the dogs body sideways out of the normal straight line.

Transmission The typical smooth, flowing gait is maintained with great strength and firmness of back. The whole effort of the hindquarter is transmitted to the forequarter through the loin, back and withers. must remain firm. At full trot, the back is firm and level without sway, roll, whip or roach. Unlevel topline with withers lower than the hip is a fault. To compensate for the forward motion imparted by the hindquarters, the shoulder should open to its full extent. The forelegs should reach out close to the ground in a long stride in harmony with that of the hindquarters. The dog does not track on widely separated parallel lines, but brings the feet inward toward the middle line of the body when trotting, in order to maintain balance. The feet track closely but do not strike or cross over. Viewed from the front, the front legs function from the shoulder joint to the pad in a straight line. Viewed from the rear, the hind legs function from the hip joint to the pad in a straight line. Faults of gait, whether from front, rear or side, are to be considered very serious faults.

 

All the same female.......

Trotting in an open field. Note the level back?

Gaiting with hind quarters lower to the ground.

Photo shows sloped back, note that her far hind leg is not super bent.

In this stack she looks to have a bit of a hinge in her back.

I keep hearing about roach backed dogs, but most of my dogs look much like this one when trotting freely, and also when standing freely.

If the ASL that was posted above were being shown in the SV ring, I believe the judge would say it had a weak back.

Keep roached back aside please, we have a major difference between AKC and FCI, 1st asks for a level back in trot, latter asks for a sloping back in trot. There is a big difference between level and sloping back.

In a trot, which one provides a firmer back, more fluid movement, better front reach and more efficient movement, a level back or a sloping back, and WHY ?

Ibrahim

Why do you think an SV judge would think that dog has a weak back?

Why did SV move the breed to more curved back, more sloping back, lower withers, over angulated rear, steeper croup ? I wish Mr. Donald told us the reason behind this.

Is all that development/change to GSD COSMETIC only? Or did it make a change to movement efficiency ?

I can think of three disadvantages of this change:

1. Front leg lifting up

2. Stiff elbow (restricted open up)

3. Restricted front reach

Ibrahim